Lara Bryant grew up on a small farm in Tennessee, which inspired her love and passion for the environment. She has a background in chemistry, and originally got her bachelor's degree in in plant and soil science from the University of Tennessee. She later became in invested in the policy side of environmental protection, and completed her master’s degree in public administration in environmental science and policy from Columbia University.
Lara Bryant currently works at the NRDC Washington, D.C. office, where she promotes soil health practices and policies that protect water quality, use water more efficiently, and help farms to be more resilient to climate change. Prior to joining NRDC, she worked on sustainable agricultural policy at the National Wildlife Federation and World Resources Institute and was a chemist at a private environmental laboratory.
The NRDC is a Non-Profit organization with more than 3 million members and online activists with the expertise of some 700 scientists, lawyers, and other environmental specialists to confront the climate crisis, protect the planet's wildlife and wild places, and to ensure the rights of all people to clean air, clean water, and healthy communities.
You can listen to this episode here:
You can also listen to this podcast at Spotify, Apple Podcast, Google Podcast or other major podcast distributors:
Who are the NRDC?:
The Natural Resources Defense Council (NRDC) is a prominent environmental advocacy organization dedicated to safeguarding the planet's natural resources and promoting sustainable practices. Through a combination of legal expertise, scientific research, and grassroots initiatives, NRDC works to address pressing environmental issues, such as climate change, pollution, and habitat destruction. By advocating for sound environmental policies, conducting impactful litigation, and engaging with communities, the NRDC strives to create a healthier and more sustainable future for both people and the planet. The NRDC is made up of over 3 million members and online activists, with the combined expertise of nearly 700 scientists, lawyers, and environmental experts. (Source: https://www.nrdc.org)
What is regenerative farming?
Regenerative agriculture is a holistic approach to farming, which aims to meet the needs of both the people and the earth. Unlike conventional farming methods that may deplete soil fertility over time, regenerative farming seeks to regenerate soil health, biodiversity, and overall ecosystem resilience. It emphasizes organic and agroecological principles, utilizing practices such as cover cropping, crop rotation, and minimal tillage to improve soil structure and fertility. (Source: https://rodaleinstitute.org/why-organic/organic-basics/regenerative-organic-agriculture-and-climate-change/)
One key aspect of regenerative farming is carbon sequestration, with the goal of mitigating climate change by capturing and storing atmospheric carbon dioxide in the soil. This process not only helps combat global warming but also contributes to improved soil health and water retention.
Regenerative agriculture aims to restore the soil and ecosystem health, address inequity, and preserve our land, waters, and climate for future generations. (Source: https://www.nrdc.org)
In this episode we address the following questions:
What is the mission of the NRDC? 2:15
What is your role and what does your day to day look like? 2:50
Can you elaborate more on the federal insurance program? 3:28
How does that system work? 4:45
Can you explain the agriculture structure in the US? 5:48
What is your goal for the crop insurance program? 6:30
What is regenerative agriculture to you? 7:50
What are some regenerative strategies that farmers can implement? 8:50
What needs to change? 9:45
How do you see community and empowerment for the next generation of regenerative farming? 10:40
Is it possible to do regenerative agriculture on the large scale ranches? 12:30
How do you make sure that soil health can be individualized to the specifics of that field? 13:50
How do farmers finance the shift to regenerative agriculture? 14:20
Who is working on this funding? 15:45
What would be your three tips to non-farmers to help contribute to regenerative agriculture? 16:15
Is there a difference between regenerative agriculture and organic? 17:50
Is there a label for regenerative agriculture products? 19:00
How many American farmers are already practicing regenerative agriculture? 20:00
What needs to change for regenerative agriculture? 21:00
What is soil health? 21:15
What is your opinion on using carbon credits for financing this? 22:15
How has your time in regenerative agriculture changes your opinions? 23:30
How did you end up working in this field? 25:00
Are there any books, podcasts, or documentaries that shaped your journey? 26:15
How can people contact you? 28:00
Memorable quotes from the episode by Lara:
“Our purpose is to ensure the right of all people to clean air, clean water and health communities, to fight the climate crisis and protect wildlife and wild places.”
“Regenerative agriculture is a management philosophy on farming and harmony in nature with the community.“
“Resources for regenerative agricultures really need to change to meet farmers needs.”
“Policy is what needs to change to create a more regenerative system.”
“Small people can do great things.”
“Policy, policy, and policy!”
“In a perfect world gardeners would be held in great esteem.”
“You can know the scientific solution to a problem, but if you don’t apply that solution within the governance framework within a society, you won’t be able to use that solution.”
Website: https://www.nrdc.org/
Contact: linkedin.com/in/lara-bryant-aa30a923
__________________________________________________________________________________
Transcript based on AI and beta- status:
NarratorHost00:01 You are listening to Sustain Now. In this podcast, you will learn from successful entrepreneurs and scientists about the newest climate change solutions to address the climate crisis, from food and agri-tech over energy material innovation to circular economy. This nonprofit podcast is hosted by Frederica. She is a tech entrepreneur and climate enthusiast. You can find show notes and background information on wwwSustainNowch. Enjoy the show. FriederikeHost00:35 Today I'm talking with Lara Bryant, deputy Director of NRDC, the Nature Resource Defense Council in USA. Lara has a background in chemistry and studied plant and soil science, and has a master's degree in public administration, in environmental science and policy from the Columbia University. Nrdc is a nonprofit organization with more than 3 million members and online activists, with the expertise of around 700 scientists, lawyers and other environmental specialists, to confront the climate crisis. In this podcast, we talk about regenerative agriculture and how policies and subsidies are driving the transition to regenerative agriculture. In this short episode, we take a look at USA farmers and what needs to change to drive the industry to be more sustainable. Today, I'm talking to Lara. Welcome, lara. Thank you for joining my podcast Sustain Now. LaraGuest01:37 Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to talk to you. FriederikeHost01:41 We will take a deep dive into regenerative agriculture. You're working for the nonprofit organization NRDC, the Natural Resources Defense Council in the USA. Can you please share the background of this nonprofit organization and which mission you're following? LaraGuest01:59 Yes, so NRDC, or the Natural Resources Defense Council, is an organization that's been around since 1970 in the US. We also have international offices. We have more than 3 million members and online activists and experts. We have 700 scientists, lawyers and environmental specialists, and our purpose is to ensure the rights of all people to clean air, clean water and healthy communities, to fight the climate crisis and protect wildlife and wild places, and so my mission within the organization is to protect the soil, which intersects with all of these things, with our fight on the climate crisis, protecting wildlife and providing clean water and healthy communities. FriederikeHost02:39 Okay, fantastic. So what's your exact role Like? How does the day of Lara looks like? LaraGuest02:47 Well, my title is Deputy Director of Water and Agriculture, but that title can be kind of confusing. I work on a team with my colleagues and we advocate for policy solutions to promote soil health. So I'm particularly very focused on our federal crop insurance program in the US and how that program can be improved to incorporate soil health and reward farmers that are using good soil health practices. FriederikeHost03:12 So to the European listeners, who probably don't know about this federal insurance program, can you elaborate a little bit more on that? What is it designed for? Who is eligible to get that? How does it work? LaraGuest03:23 Yes, so when we talk about subsidies in the United States we're usually talking about the federal crop insurance program, which is the largest farm subsidy program, and the different ways that it's subsidized is that it's a federal run program but private insurance companies insure farmers who pay for a premium to insure their crop. But 62% of that premium is paid for by taxpayers, so farmers aren't paying the full cost of what it costs to insure their crops. We also, taxpayers, pay the cost of those private companies to run the program. So they're administrative and operating expenses and normally when you have you know risky, let's say with a driver's insurance policy, normally you have reinsurance and risky clients get repooled or redistributed a certain way. So the reinsurance is also subsidized by taxpayers. So it's a very it's a large program. It's used on about 80% of cropland in the U? S, especially in the Midwest, and so it really drives a lot of what decisions farmers are making. FriederikeHost04:29 Because it's like, kind of, if they don't fulfill the revenues or the profit they want to generate, they get get the money from the insurance. So how does that work? LaraGuest04:39 Sometimes they're not even allowed to get loans from the bank, for example when they go to finance the cost of their seeds, their fuels, at the beginning of the season. Sometimes they can't even get a loan if they don't have federal crop insurance, and it works in different ways. One way is that if you can subsidize or you can buy a policy that's based on your yield. So let's say you think you normally get 200 bushels of corn and let's say you have a bad year and it's really dry and you only get 100 bushels of corn, then the federal crop insurance would pay for the difference in that price. So for a lot of farmers they see it as a way to survive and it's so cheap because of all the subsidies that you can't not do it. FriederikeHost05:22 Okay, understand, maybe to take a step back, I'm not very, you know, like, not not a U S specialist in crops and etc. How, how is the farm Like? If you would look at the agriculture in U S Like, is it 80% crop which is growing there? How is like the structure of agriculture in the U S? LaraGuest05:43 Well, we grow a little bit of everything, and food, fuel and fiber to. Our largest crops are corn and cows, soybeans, dairy products, different types of meat products, chickens, hogs, and wheat and hay. So those are the largest things that we grow. So when I talk about crop insurance a lot of times, especially for all all the crops that I just mentioned in the commodities I just mentioned, it applies to those crops. FriederikeHost06:10 If you talk about this insurance part, so what exactly, then, are you doing in there Like you want to change it to what like? What's your, what's your goal with your mission on that one, why is it? Why is it not good at the moment and what do you want to change? LaraGuest06:24 The subsidy programs have such an impact on what farmers do and what they decide to do and right now farmers get all those subsidies without very many requirements for being environmentally sustainable and it's very hard to make changes to the crop insurance program. 06:40 There's a strong agricultural lobby and a lot of support for the program and farmers depend on it. So there's a lot of don't touch this kind of attitude with our decision makers. So what we're trying to do is to start with small changes that transition the subsidy program from one that's funding the status quotes and one that's funding regenerative agriculture and it's actually more resilient. So we're trying to put incentives for soil health in the crop insurance program. Right now we're starting by doing that by letting farmers get a discount off of their crop insurance if they plant cover crops, which is a really common sustainable agriculture practice. It's not the main one or the only one, but it's a really. It's a really commonly used one, especially where these commodity crops are grown, and it's a good place to start and it shows that we have data that shows that the cover crops eventually can reduce risk, so it can actually draw down the cost of this program over time. FriederikeHost07:35 So we you know, we know we talked a little bit of insurance, but it's I think it's kind of the driving factor or the policies you mentioned you're trying to change what is, for you, regenerative agriculture. I heard a lot of different definitions and you know what it actually encompassed, but maybe you can what's your definition and what are the main factors to actually change the regenerative agriculture from your perspective? LaraGuest07:59 Yeah, thank you. Thank you for asking that. We actually studied me and my colleagues on the team that I mentioned before studied regenerative agriculture in the US and we interviewed 115 farmers across the country and tried to understand what regenerative, regenerative agriculture is from talking to them and we've come up with our own definition. But it's not coming out of nowhere definition. It's based on all those conversations that we have. So we define it as a management philosophy on farming and harmony with nature in the community. That's what it means. So it's a principles based definition, the principles that the farmer applies to how they operate. FriederikeHost08:38 So, given example for one farm, what kind of principles would they change, or what kind of principle would they implement? LaraGuest08:47 Soil health would be one of the most important and the most common principles, so prioritizing soil health. So a farm that is regenerative would look at the soil that they have in their field and see what status it is and make sure they're doing everything to preserve the health of the soil on their farm. Other things would be reducing chemical inputs and pesticides that might impact the community or the water quality nearby, and it's really important to emphasize we talk about not just nature but the community. So regenerative farmers will start thinking about who they're feeding and what needs that they're meeting, and a lot of the regenerative farmers we spoke to this is the reason they're growing food is because there was something that they needed in their community that wasn't there and they want to provide that. FriederikeHost09:32 You already mentioned your study, which you have done with 115 farmers, where you did the interview. What were your key takeaways from that study? LaraGuest09:40 I think our key takeaways are number one that policy has driven the system that we have in the United States and I think this is probably true worldwide, but definitely in the United States the system that we have is driven by policy. So policy is what has to change before we can have a more regenerative system, that we must increase support for farmers and ranchers during their beginning years and their transitioning years when they're transitioning to regenerative agriculture, and resources for regenerative farmers and ranchers need to really substantially be improved to meet their need. FriederikeHost10:17 Okay and I think, like I saw, that one is the policies, what you mentioned, but what I also liked in the study, what I was reading about it, is that with the aging farming population, that you also need to empower the next generation to actually do it differently, and I literally like that part. So, how you mentioned that before, community is very important for regenerative agriculture out of your perspective. How do you see that with the next generation? How do you want to? What do you think needs to change and how can you contribute to it? LaraGuest10:50 Yeah, thank you for noticing that, because that I think, for all of us who did the report and did that research, that was really really something that we took to heart and we took away as environmental organizations, where a lot of times focused on how the farms can be sustainable and what practices they put in place to help the environment. But I think we began to see that farmers need to be protected and the next generation of farmers needs to be cultivated as part of our future environment. So I think it's really important to make sure that we're meeting the needs of the whole farmers. So, whatever they need for loans, operating assistance, and start thinking about things like things in the US that not everyone has, like health insurance and savings for retirement. Those are things that farmers are often left out of, those systems that other people often have because they're self-employed. So thinking about those things that will give people a reason to go back to the land and to learn the lessons of the current generation that's aging out. FriederikeHost11:56 If you look back at the study, what surprised you the most when you looked at the study and after you have done the interviews? LaraGuest12:03 Just the sheer diversity of farms in the US and how correspondingly diverse regenerative systems are. So, for example, regenerative agriculture in Appalachia versus New Mexico are really different. In Washington DC, which is close to where I am, versus California, very different systems based on the land. FriederikeHost12:21 Yeah, I can imagine that also comes to my next question. Right now, what I understood like crop producing in US is actually massive, large productions, which is a lot of automized. Everyone has this picture of this automized machines running through. If you want to do more regenerative agriculture, is that actually possible to do that on that large scale? LaraGuest12:44 Yes, I think so. Yes, every farm can be farmed regeneratively, and not all the farms are large Some of the ranches and farms we talked to are very large and some were very small. But because it's a principles-based approach that doesn't exclude the use of machinery, the machinery can still be used, and regenerative farmers can be very innovative in how they do that. So it all depends on the context of the farm. FriederikeHost13:08 So even soil. You just talked about soil health. Soil health can be very different, like here and in two, three meters, because it could be a different ecosystem just in these two, three meters span. How do you deal with that? How do you make that applicable that you can actually increase the soil health and being extremely individualized to that soil in different aspects on one even field? LaraGuest13:34 Yes, that's a really good thought. I think that's what distinguishes regenerative agriculture is that they embrace that complexity because you're focusing on the principles. With regenerative agriculture, it doesn't matter how different the soil is the same principles apply. It's complex and you treat things with their contacts. So, for example, a few months ago I visited a ranch that has several different soil types on the ranch and the manager is treating each differently and they're using layers of data to map out the ecosystems on their farm and they're grazing their cattle accordingly. So they're using that. So I would say complexity is all part of regenerative ag and equipping farmers with knowledge and resources is the best way to embrace that. FriederikeHost14:19 And if you're now like this farmer I don't know how many hectares you have and you think about okay, I really want to change the regenerative agriculture. My guess is that the first years you will have actually less output till you changed your farm. I don't know if that is true or not. I would like to have your opinion on that. And how do you finance that right now if you are in the US? LaraGuest14:40 Yes, that's really important and, in answer to your question, is that necessarily always the case? Not always. It really depends on the farm. The farm may have more or less that needs to be done to it and sometimes what needs to be done is regenerative farmers need to cut back, but it's possible that farmers will have some less years of output. So, for example, someone who they're taking cropland that maybe was in corn and soybeans and maybe they want to turn that into pasture or diverse cropland, they would need to pay for infrastructure up front, so they'll need financing for that. So it's really important for financing to also be involved and to be a part of the regenerative movement and to be prepared to lend farmers who are to farmers who are making those big changes. So we need more investors willing to finance regenerative ag up front and wait a few years for the returns. FriederikeHost15:33 And who could there be Like, who is financing something like that? LaraGuest15:36 In the US it's banks, but also the federal government does do grants, so there are federal loans and grants that can help farmers, and that's where I think organizations like mine that work on getting the federal government to change their policies can really work with making sure that there are programs there that support farmers, and some of those are included in the Inflation Reduction Act funds, so some of that financing and grants are available for farmers there. But I think banks and then there are new, new ventures and new investment firms that are investing in regenerative agricultural land and investing in farmers to become owners of their land, and so I think there's a space for new players to be involved. FriederikeHost16:18 So if you're not a farmer, what would be your three tips if you would like to contribute to regenerative agriculture? LaraGuest16:24 Well, first of all, buying regenerative products, and you don't need a regenerative label to buy products that follow some of the principles of regenerative ag. Organic is one of the most common things that follows most of the principles of regenerative ag, so you can buy organic. You can buy good animal welfare practices, cage free eggs, no antibiotics and, even better, just buy directly from farmers. Go to the farmers market and buy from them. So that's the first thing. The next thing is to really get involved in policy and follow organizations like NRDC that are doing this work and sign petitions and write letters For us. You can go to NRDCorg and follow any of our social media accounts. More international NGOs there's, like Sustainable Food Trust in the UK, the World Wildlife Fund and the Nature Conservancy, and I'm sure there are many others. I'm saying from my US context. And then, finally, you know if you have a yard or even a little place to grow a plant within your house, plant something, use compost and take care of your little bit of soil that you have. FriederikeHost17:27 Nice. Is there any downside of regenerative agriculture? LaraGuest17:31 I don't think that there's a downside, but there is the danger that regenerative agriculture can be misunderstood or that people lose interest with all this complexity and instead of change, we continue with the same thing. FriederikeHost17:43 You just mentioned before organic or bio. Is there a difference? Like, can you compare these two, regenerative farming to organic farming? Is there any differences or is it the same? LaraGuest17:54 Yeah, I think I don't like to compare them by saying that one is better than the other, to focus too much on the differences, and I think sometimes people do that and it can be a problem that regenerative and organic are pitted against each other and really there's a lot of similarities. 18:09 So in America the USDA organic program has a really clear sign up process and rules that you have to follow and a label that you have. So when you buy a USDA organic labeled product you're going to know for sure that the farmer followed at least some regenerative principles. I think In the US there are many regenerative farmers who are not certified organic and there's different reasons for that. They might have not very good access to markets where they can profit from organic agriculture or infrastructure where they can qualify as organic. For example, is there organic seed processing facility or an organic slaughterhouse? There might not be one. So there can be farmers who are doing really good things and I think regenerative agriculture has a bigger umbrella. An organic fits in that umbrella, but so do a lot of other types of farms. FriederikeHost19:01 So there's no one label or one certification yet existing if you're regenerative agriculture or farm or not. LaraGuest19:09 No, there isn't one. There's a new regenerative organic label that I think goes farther than any label so far, but there's no need to overthink it. Any labeling process is going to guarantee that you've at least had some improvement over the status quo. FriederikeHost19:26 Which one is the new one? Can you name it? LaraGuest19:29 The regenerative organic certification. I think that came from the Rodale Institute or it might be a new independent one, so it's just taking organic a step further. FriederikeHost19:39 Okay, maybe we can share that afterwards and as well in the show notes, how much of the percentage of the American farmers already practiced bio or regenerative farming. What are we talking about right now? LaraGuest19:52 Yeah, that's really tricky to know, because I look at regenerative agriculture like it's a pathway and farmers can be at different points along their journey and never quite reach the end. So, for example, I was talking. Some of the farmers we interviewed were very experienced regenerative farmers and seemed to me like they were farming in a very natural way, for example, growing mushrooms in their forest and having their cows graze under the trees. But even those farmers always felt like there is more they can do, and so the farm in the land is always changing, so there's always more that can be done with regenerative agriculture. I would say that most American farmers are somewhere on this pathway, but most of them are at the very beginning and they have a long way to go. So only a very small percent, maybe less than 5%, are the ones that are really far along, like I was talking about. FriederikeHost20:44 And what needs to change. What are the three things you think needs to change? You said policies. That's definitely one, but do you have, like other two, which you think is the most important to change, to actually get more people or more farmers on regenerative agriculture? LaraGuest20:58 Absolutely. Policy is the most important thing that we need to change. I would almost double and triple down with that. So policy, policy and policy. FriederikeHost21:09 Okay, okay, good, then we talked about soil health before and maybe you can elaborate quickly what is soil health actually? LaraGuest21:19 There are different ways to measure soil health, but soil health is about principles, and so the basic principles of soil health are to limit disturbance, so limiting plowing and breaking up the soil. And to keep the soil covered, so always to keep living, living, cover living roots on the soil so it doesn't erode and blow away. And limiting chemicals and artificial things that are added to the soil. Keeping diverse roots in the soil. So, for example, a cover crop that is a mix will have better carbon sequestration rate than one that isn't and that promotes the biodiversity of the soil. Too Is having diverse roots promotes underground or below ground biodiversity. And then another principle is integrating livestock into the operation. It's not necessarily to always follow all of these, all of these, but these are the basic principles. So farmers that prioritize soil health, they are going to be doing those things. FriederikeHost22:18 You know many, many, trying now to finance it with carbon credits. What's your opinion about that? Using that with a carbon credit model? LaraGuest22:27 We're not very focused on that at Natural Resources Defense Council because we're so focused on government policy and what the government is doing. I think there are different ways for actors to be involved in the finance regenerative agriculture, and that's one of them. It's just really important to make sure that those credits are buying something real, buying something good, and to make sure that they're not causing more harm by causing more pollution elsewhere. So there are some basic principles that organizations like World Wildlife Fund and others have come up with for how those carbon credits can be more sustainable. But that gets a little bit beyond where I'm an expert. FriederikeHost23:05 How long have you, like I think, you've been before a chemist, right? Yes, yeah, right, you did chemistry before, and prior to that you worked in sustainable agriculture policy at the National Wildlife Federation. If you look back at your time now in that space, did anything like a thesis which you had, over the last few years, changed about regenerative agriculture or that space? LaraGuest23:30 I don't know that any of my main theories about agriculture have changed. I think I've always believed in meeting farmers where they are and I've only become more, you know, believe even more deeply in that. I think one thing that maybe has changed is something we were talking about before is how important it is to support farmers holistically, so not just for supporting farmers as stewards of environment, but supporting them as business people and as people because of that challenge that so many people are not wanting to farm and to return to the land because it's such a difficult profession and there are so many resources that aren't available to farmers. So I think it's really important to focus on supporting all of the farmers wholly, because it won't matter if farmers are following regenerative practices if they're driven out of business and we lose their knowledge. FriederikeHost24:21 Having more appreciation as well for farmers. That's what you're saying. LaraGuest24:24 More appreciation and, I think, even for environmental organizations like mine, even if we're funded and our focus is supposed to be the environment. I think we should partner up and with organizations that are just supporting the basic needs of farmers and help support them in that way too. So I guess, it's a thesis about the kind of work that I do. Should it be entirely focused on the environment or should it be focused on just farmers succeeding? FriederikeHost24:51 How did you end up in that space? Was there like a one thing you remember which made you, you know, coming from a chemist background? What made you like working now in that space? LaraGuest25:04 I grew up on a farm in Tennessee. My family had cows, beef cows, and they were also teachers, so it was a really small farm in Tennessee. So I've always really cared about nature and about farming, just from where I started out and then my college degree was actually in soil science, which was one of the better science degrees where I went to school. So I was kind of started on the path a lot earlier and as I was a chemist I had some was thinking about studying policy, because I guess I learned from that and some of my other experiences that you can know the scientific solution to a problem, but if you don't apply that solution within the governance framework of how things are done in a society and a culture, then you can't solve the problem. So to me policy was studying how to make those scientific solutions apply. FriederikeHost26:01 Are there any specific books, podcasts, resources that had a significant impact on your journey? LaraGuest26:06 I thought about thinking about that. It's really difficult. I probably should say something like studying some great regenerative agriculture book, and of course I've read all of those, but I think, though, something that's had a significant impact on my journey was the Lord of the Rings. So I love how much Tolkien loves nature, so I guess that when I read that as a small child, I already had a love of nature, but just reinforced it and the power of friendship in the book, and that small people can do great things, and that there's not a lot of difference in people that are fighting on both sides of a war, but everyone loses something in a war, no matter the cause, and then, in a perfect world, gardeners would be held in great esteem. So those are all things that I got out of the Lord of the Rings, and I would say that it had an influence on my life. FriederikeHost26:54 Fantastic, what a nice story. Is there any resources about regenerative agriculture? What you think people should follow if they want to learn more about it? LaraGuest27:04 Yeah, well, definitely you should follow farmers and local farmers where you live, so look them up. So I know mostly American farmers and nonprofits. So, to name a few, there's an organization called Soulfire Farm. That's a farm that is led by Black Indigenous and people of color we call them BIPOC farmers. And then there's a nonprofit called Regenerative Rising so Regen Rising and Kiss the Ground that has made some movies about regenerative agriculture and collects a lot of has a good pulse on what's going on with regenerative agriculture and so it's a good one to follow if you want the latest. FriederikeHost27:41 Great, wow, I learned a lot and definitely we looked a little bit more on the policy side, which I think many neglect, but it's so important it's not only important in the US, it's also very important in Europe, as you said. Like it gives a framework for what you're incentivized and for what you're focusing on. Super great. How can people contact you if they would like to know more about you or your organization? LaraGuest28:06 You can reach out to me through LinkedIn. If you want to follow me and learn more about my organization, you can go to nrdcorg and look for Lara Bryant. You can see all my latest blogs. FriederikeHost28:17 Fantastic, so yay. Thank you so much for joining my podcast and talking about regenerative agriculture in the US. LaraGuest28:25 Thank you so much for talking about regenerative agriculture on the podcast. It's really important to me and I really appreciate that you took the time out to learn more about it. FriederikeHost28:36 Thank you for joining today's episode. You can find the show notes, background materials and contact details of our guests on our website, so staynowch, follow and share our podcast on any platform available. Do you have a comment or interesting solution to take a deep dive? Please don't hesitate to go to our website. So staynowch and write us an email.